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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:36 am Reply with quote Back to top

The goal of this thread is to create what-if sceanrios and guess what would have happened historically if the event occured.

Each post should contain a response and then another scenario. The next poster answers the previous scenario and makes one up. This process repeats.

I shall begin:

What if Japan didn't attack the US at Pearl Harbor?
 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:01 pm Reply with quote Back to top

well-- I'll get into the rambling hypothetical spirit:

if Japan didn't attack Pearl Harbor this would have had at least a couple of ramifications.

Germany and Italy would not have stopped providing aid to Nationalist China. Germany was in the process of actively training Chinese troops and helping them defend themselves against Japanese invasion. they provided China with helmets, rifles, machine guns, Panzer Is, modern artillery pieces and fire-control techniques. Germany stopped helping Chiang Kai Shek because their alliance with Japan made it politically expedient to refrain from undermininng the efforts of their ally!

Japan would have presumably escalated it's activity in China and south-east Asia. towards that end, the Soviet Union would probably have helped China even more than it historically did-- it was in Stalin's best interests to prevent the Japanese from launching a full-scale invasion of eastern Russia. he wanted China to tie down Japan so that he could focus exclusively on Germany.

Japan would have to avoid getting involved in the Phillipines-- which the US considered to be a vital strategic interest. it couldn't seriously attack the Phillipines without removing the threat of the carriers and battlesships at Pearl Harbor. Japan might have launched attacks against India instead-- focusing on crippling the British empire.

the United States and Great Britain would probably avoid giving aid to China on account of German involvement. Russia would probably have leveraged China to choose help from either Russia or Germany-- in order to force China to pick a side. I think China would ultimately side with Russian assistance because German aid would be at the mercy of the British navy--

the biggest difference is that the US probably wouldn't get fully involved in Europe until Germany invaded England or something.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

if we're talking about wild speculation and "what if's" I could ask

"what if Hitler convinced Japan to abandon China and launch an all out attack against eastern Russia at the same time as Germany?"
 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:25 am Reply with quote Back to top

Considering that Russia wasn't intially ready for anything, the German Ratskrieg (The nickname for Stalingrad) would have been more successful. Russia would have had to divert troops from the west to combat the Japanese. So, the Battle of Stalingrad would have belonged to Germany and so they would secure the oil fields.

Then the full might of Germany would have fallen upon Moscow, which would not be able to withstand constant attack (And Leningrad would have fallen). Thus, the eastern portion of Russia would be speaking Japanese and the western part German.

However, given America's involvement in the war, Japan would have still been defeated, since land armies are useless in sea battles. However, Germany with a secured eastern front, would have been able to divert all its resources to the west. Thus, the allies would have a much harder time defeating Germany and the bombing of Germany would not have happened as the Luftwaffe would still be largely intact.

Meanwhile in China, without the united front against Japan, the civil war would have continued and China would have been useless in helping much at all.
 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:27 am Reply with quote Back to top

What if Germany won the Battle of the Bulge (Due to more favorable weather) and split the allied forces?
 
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:38 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Then the Germany would overrun the American forces and stealing their supplies. The war would be longer if it wasn't for winter, and plus the Allies have to regroup their forces to attack the Germans.
 
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

What if Japan won Midway and took the airfield??
 
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

If they won, then hawaii would be open to attack. Also they would have naval dominancy since their carriers would have not have been destroyed and the allies would still have been on the defensive.
 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

What if the carriers ceased to exist throughout the war how much of the warfare might have changed??
 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

if carriers didn't exist then naval warfare would have probably gone back to ww1 styled combat. Also submarines would have been easily the second best threat after carriers, so Germany would have been focus more on the u-boats the the graft Zeppelin. In the pacific, air support would have been minimum except for long range aircrafts.
 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:35 pm Reply with quote Back to top

it means that the Zero, with it's incredible range, would have remained a dominant force in the Pacific for much longer than it historically did-- there were very few fighters in WW2 that had the stamina of the Zero. that thing could fly for hours.
 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The only thing that could rival it in range would be the bombers; they where using b-24 for recon. Also the pby catalina would have been more used
 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Plus, the Yamato and Bismarck would have been more useful in naval combat and would have stood up to all the hype around them (They were sunk by carriers as I recall).


What if Germany secured Africa with Rommel? In particular, would Hitler have still attacked the Soviet Union?
 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

theharkonnen wrote:
Plus, the Yamato and Bismarck would have been more useful in naval combat and would have stood up to all the hype around them (They were sunk by carriers as I recall).


What if Germany secured Africa with Rommel? In particular, would Hitler have still attacked the Soviet Union?

Yes of course, he even wrote it in mein kampf.
 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

If Germany secured Africa then the oil supplies in the Middle East would be much easier to control. this would give also a path to conquer the oil fields in Caucasus and eventually become a threat to India.
 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I've got one: how would an invasion of gibraltar turn out. one scenerio where the germans have to assault it by sending troops navaly and second if franco allowed the germans to move troops through spain to attack.
 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Then the British would criticize the Spain for letting the Germans pass through their territory and if the Germans took it Gibraltar, then they would have the control of the most of the Mediterranean Sea. However they actually planned this but it never happened.
 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Planetshakers wrote:
Then the British would criticize the Spain for letting the Germans pass through their territory and if the Germans took it Gibraltar, then they would have the control of the most of the Mediterranean Sea. However they actually planned this but it never happened.

what I was asking was what a naval or land invasion turn out like?
 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It would be difficult for the Germans but they might risk it to get Gibraltar, one reason they might avoid because the airdrops in Crete were much of a risk and second the British have airpower and better sense of nationalism. you see the defense on Malta, how the Germans and Italians tried to take Malta, the British have a closer base since they are around. A naval for the Germans I don't think they are superior to the British because they did not develop many carriers and suffer many causalities like in the First World war. And the nearest the British base would be the island of Funchal which is governed by Portugal.
 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Or maybe some island that I cannot think of right thats close to Gibraltar, not the Canary Islands cause that is where Franco started his coup to start the Spanish civil war
 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

What if the Germans won the battle of Kursk how would that change?
 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

it might have added another year to the war-- maybe two if they got really lucky-- but a German victory at Kursk wouldn't help Germany win the war in the long run. they were simply trying to buy some time... to shorten their line and get some breathing room. of course, if they hadn't launched an offensive at all they could have gotten some 'breathing room' as well. the Soviets knew exactly what the Germans had in mind at Kursk and so, as such, if Kursk was to have any long-range value it would have been better to use it as a feint for another attack. by this time the Allieds had pretty much gotten Germany's number in regards to intel... so I'm not sure that a victory at Kursk could have been anything more than a tactical success.
 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

How about if the Germans won both the Battle of Leningrad and Stalingrad?? (that would even change the course of history more)
 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Big morale lose for the soviets. Their forces were already deserting before, and the capture of the cities named after the great revolutionist would have easily crushed the will to fight back.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

And there is more too it, not just demoralizing the Soviets.
 
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