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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Herman Goering was responsible for the fault because he let the aviators fly too closer to the Junkers that the antiaircraft guns and Spitfires were able to kill the fighter planes. What if he did not plan that way instead used a different that could have changed the course of history. Thoughts, Opinions, and Questions are welcomed.


Last edited by Planetshakers on Wed May 30, 2012 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total 
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:24 pm Reply with quote Back to top

That was a major problem the Luftwaffe had but also they didn't develop any new plane for a certain amount of time. But Herman Goering was a shi**y Luftwaffe leader.
 
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

True he was imagined if Goring was replaced by some other general. Look how the Luftwaffe would have changed.
 
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Greatly and especially if the upgraded most of their planes. One of my favorite German plane non Jet is Focke-Wulf Ta 152, excellent plane.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Focke_Wulf_Ta152.jpg
 
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:21 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Oh I like their jet planes pretty useful and fast, only one of a kind during that war.
 
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Planetshakers wrote:
Oh I like their jet planes pretty useful and fast, only one of a kind during that war.


True I do like the Jet but its not that new of a design. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Coanda_1910.gif

But extensive research and modification lead to the turbojet, and later German airplane designs had rocket engine you saw some videos on them before?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Me163efJM.jpg
 
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:57 am Reply with quote Back to top

Yep now that it is old.
I think so those rocket engines can be found at NASA.

Well I might try to get a video of it if you want me to.
 
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

No I did see videos on youtube and History channel and Military, but if you did see it you saw alot had to me done to make them work. I want to see more people in this post its very interesting!
 
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yep indeed
 
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:09 am Reply with quote Back to top

Off topic, did you hear about Rommel's AC?
 
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:23 am Reply with quote Back to top

the Luftwaffe failed in the Battle of Britain for a couple of major reasons:

1. they never systematically disabled Britain's radar network. this allowed the British to know exactly where the Germans were attacking and deploy their forces accordingly.

2. the British had the "home field" advantage-- and could take their time. they also had a very good system for systematically retrieving downed pilots (from either side)

3. the German fighters lacked the range to provide proper escort and gain aerial superiority. generally speaking, the 109 was a short-range tactical fighter. often they would only have enough fuel to stay over the target for 10-15 minutes! they would have to launch numerous over-lapping sorties to maintain control over the air. any protracted dog-fight would favor the British. in a very real sense-- this was a role-reversal from the British spamming offensive patrols and deep penetration missions into German occupied France during WWI. the only difference being that during WW2 the British had a much more efficient way of countering German air penetrations than the Germans had during WWI.

4. the German twin-engined bombers and dive-bombers were not deployed properly-- too many missions were spent on breaking the will of England-- if they didn't disable the radar networks and airfields they would get caught up in a massive battle of attrition.

5. although the 109 was faster, had a better rate of climb than the Hurricane and Spitfire-- the Allied planes were more agile-- and could drag the fight out by playing to their strengths. the 109 just didn't have enough fuel to play a waiting game!

6. the Bf.110 was a bad idea from start to finish. it was too heavy to be a fighter-- but didn't carry enough weaponry to be effective as a bomber. the Germans probably should have ditched it in favor of the Focke Wulf 187-- which would have done a better job. it was only the lack of serious opposition that could allow the Germans to think this was an effective aircraft-- it did well enough as a night-fighter, but for day-light work it just wasn't adequate.

7. the Luftwaffe procurement process was not particularly good-- prone to nepotism and conflicting standards meant that superior aircraft (or with better potential) were passed over in favor of inferior machines.

8. they accepted victory claims at face value, and had no real way to verify them. the British, however, could allow the inflated victory claims to be public for propaganda value-- all the while the British commanders KNEW just how many German machines had been shot down-- and could plan accordingly.

there are probably other reason I could have mentioned-- but these were a few of the reasons I could think of off the top of my head. if the Germans had used those V-weapons to disable known British radar networks instead of terrorizing civilians I think that alone would have helped their efforts considerably.
 
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Agreed but you know the English had radar which enabled them to know when the Germans were coming plus the lack of experienced German fighters contributed to the lost.
 
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:09 pm Reply with quote Back to top

German had radar too Very Happy. But the menace was Hermann Goering he sucked bad at his job and even with foreign policy.
 
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

LOL, But the Brits were more experienced with radar plus they invented the modern type in warfare first than the Germans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar
 
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yep, but also were the Germans, but British pilots were good and all their aircraft had between 4-8 guns. Faster kills is better than accuracy in the skies.
 
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

British has Polish pilots who were dedicated to the Allied side. Without them the Brits could have lost the battle.
 
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 9:10 am Reply with quote Back to top

Polish airplanes were not very good and a lot of the axis planes were not being upgraded unlike the British witch they did very frequently.
 
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Their pilots however where more experience than the Brits you know. Thats one reason the British won the battle against Germans.
 
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 1:09 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Planetshakers wrote:
Their pilots however where more experience than the Brits you know. Thats one reason the British won the battle against Germans.


That's just confusing me.
 
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

"there were very experienced Polish volunteer pilots with the RAF in the Battle of Britain-- without these experienced pilots (flying Hurricanes and Spitfires in) the RAF England wouldn't have done nearly as well in the Battle of Britain." is what I thnk he was trying to say.
 
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

There you go. Gizmotron said for me. Thanks man.
 
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I didn't understand who you referring to. Didn't know Polish were in the RAF. Good to know that, but if funny because the British didn't help the Polish when the German invaded, but then the Brits also bombed French ships during the invasion of France LOL.
 
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

PanzerKreig wrote:
Yep, but also were the Germans, but British pilots were good and all their aircraft had between 4-8 guns. Faster kills is better than accuracy in the skies.

4-8 guns? The early Spitfire and Hurricanes were armed manly with .303 caliber mgs that preformed poorly at shooting down german planes. Still the spitfire is my favorite.

"Even if the eight Brownings worked perfectly, pilots soon discovered that they were not sufficient to destroy larger aircraft. Combat reports showed that an average of 4,500 rounds were needed to shoot down an enemy aircraft. In November 1938, tests against armoured and unarmoured targets had already indicated that the introduction of a weapon of at least 20 mm calibre was urgently needed"-wikipedia
 
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

the 8 rifle-caliber guns were woefully inadequate. you pretty much had to get within ramming distance in order to get a kill.

although the Spitfire got a spectacular upgrade with the addition of the Hispano 20 mm cannon-- it had such a high rate of fire that pilots dubbed it 'the One Kill Wonder'. if you do the math-- each wing-board cannon got 120 rounds. if the gun had a rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute you'd get 12 seconds of continuos fire... which isn't that much in a hectic dogfight. but the fact of the matter is that the Hispano had a rate of fire closer to 800 rpm. this meant that pilots were probably only going to get 8 to 9 one-second bursts. when the Spitfire got upgraded with .50 caliber machine guns it did much better-- but it never quite lost the "One Kill Wonder" reputation. it was a sleek and trim fighter-- and there just wasn't that much room to stuff more fuel and ammunition in there!

the 109, by contrast, had a couple of variations-- some experienced pilots liked having the 20 mm cannon mounted to fire through the propeller hub-- this was preferred by the 'old hands'-- because it meant the gun was more accurate-- ESPECIALLY at close ranges, which is where most expert pilots liked to be when shooting down an enemy. it made for less maintenance on the field-- since you didn't have to set the convergence of the guns.

other pilots, like Adolf Galland, advocated wing-mounted cannons because they had a higher dispersal of fire (this meant that new pilots were more likely to score hits). the down-side is that having guns widely spaced apart meant you had to set the gun convergence to an optimum distance. you might have the bullets striking the target close together-- so if you got too close, or were too far, some of your bullets would hit far and wide of the target. but within a certain minimum and maximum distance, this 'spread' or 'pattern' of bullets meant new pilots were more likely to hit something.

oops, my decades of fighter-pilot geekery are coming out!
 
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

LOL you should post a thread about it because you seem to like to talk about it.
 
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