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JAPAN
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· Japan Strategy and Generals
· Japanese Mortars or Heavy Airborne?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not speaking of who has the best special operations-- although that can certainly play a role. which AI general makes the best use of their time, money, and regiments?

I've been digging into the SAI files and noticed that there are "ego templates" for each general. there is a low-income template, a main game ego template, and an end-game ego template.

my belief is that these ego templates help dictate what the AI will do at different stages in the game. for example, Rommel has "Armor" as his primary ego template throughout the entire game. if such is the case-- this might help explain those games where I've captured every city while he's scrambling to make medium tanks and neglecting his economy!

I've sat there thunderstruck by Kuribayashi spamming oil depots on the Iwo Jima mission-- but when I looked up his primary ego template-- his entire game was built around mechanized regiments! it would make sense if you knew he was programmed to work with mechs-- but in the context of the campaign it made no sense at all! he didn't have mechs as an option for the Iwo Jima mission!

I couldn't really set this up as a poll-- because there were too many options. but if people would feel free to point out the best AI general from each country-- it could help my investigations into making the AI generals slightly less retarded.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

For Germany, I like to play myself and Rundstedt AI versus 6 Russians. Rundstedt seems to enjoy artillery halftracks, mortars, and Hummels, and he is great for just demoralizing the enemy into a retreat. Then I finish them with a strike from an assortment of armor I deploy in a city. Only problem is, he doesn't micro too well, but, all in all, he is by far the German AI I'd like on my 6.

For Japan, I think that Yamamoto AI is pretty decent. In the early game, he regularly trumps the Wingate generals I play against. (I try to use realistic scenarios.) YammyAI makes alot of infantry. It really helps during the first ten minutes, but then he continues making infantry, even when the British AI has >6 tank regiments. That says something. Kamikaze is also clincher for why I like him. Nagumo seems to waste his EXP on Industrial Sabotage.

I think Nimitz AI doesn't know what he's doing. He rushes to build AT Mech and Shermans, in the early game, and then by the twenty minute mark he spams AT infantry. But, all of those units DO help, especially when he decides to Nuke.

Zhukov AI seems, to me at least, on of the only real challenges in the game. Koniev wastes his time with paratroops, Chuikov builds piecemeal, and Rokossovski tries to get armor quickly. However, Zhukov's style seems like something right out of online PvP play. Infantry first, and he makes about five at least. Anti-tank mech next. Then, he builds alot of heavy and artillery tanks. Arty Tank Heavy Tank Arty Tank versus AT infantry/ occasional Light Tank makes Zhukov a, quite literally 'tank.'

Out of all the AI Generals, i have to give Zhukov General General General. THE BEST.

I personally think that the British AI is a joke. Especially Monty. What happened to the daring commander, that all of the sudden make around 8 regiments and then quitting?

That's just my two cents on the matter. Gizmo, do you agree? Also, do you mind telling me what my favorite generals' stats/ favorite tactics according to the files are?
 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

You are right about that
 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

still looking into the whole stats-thing, because there's a LOT of things there: 8 ego types, 5 nations, and probably 20+ files worth of info to look into.

there are 8 Ego templates, but these seem to indicate a basic preference and set of priorities:
Armor: Zhukov, Rommel, Wingate, Wavell, Patton, Kesselring (late game)
Artillery: Rundstedt, Rokossovski, Chuikov
Balanced: Montgomery, Konev (end game), Kesseling (early and mid game)
Campaign
Infantry: Mikawa
Infantry + Planes: Yamamoto, Mountbatten, Konev, Nimitz
Mechanized: Eisenhower, Kuribayashi
Planes: Arnold, Nagumo, Manstein

the ego templates list isn't finished-- still looking into it. but I'm impressed by how two generals can use the same ego template and get different results.

there also appear to be national templates as well-- but haven't had the chance to look into this in great detail.


Yamamoto and Nimitz have identical Ego templates: they emphasize infantry and aircraft from start to finish. the only difference between Konev and Yamamoto is that he switches over the "Balanced Ego" for the end of the game.

to put this in perspective Montgomery uses the "Balanced Ego" from start to finish.

with "Infantry + Planes" Ego there is a line of code that instructs that there is to be a minimum interval of 90 between attacks. in the "Balanced Ego" there is no such minimum interval!

Zhukov is a bit more difficult-- because his SAI profile is VERY similar to Rommels...


I'm probably gonna get rid of Industrial Sabotage... can't seem to get the AI to ignore that op or use it more sparingly. I'm tempted to redesignate as something more deadly like... summoning a regiment of artillery half-tracks or something. none of the AI can resist that op. even when I give it to other generals!

right now I've been tinkering with the SAI profiles so that most generals start with Infantry in the Low Income stage, switch over to Mechanized in the Main Game mode, and then end the game with Armor.

since a lot of mods allow for over 5 times as many regiments as the original game allowed, I've been thinking of lowering the minimum attack time from 90 to 45 to see what happens. compare the 20 regiment limit of the original to the 120 regiment limit of Morgenblitz-- forcing the AI to attack more may not be so bright early in the game-- but near the end of the game it's probably not such a bad idea. and I think it's worth a shot.

there's still a lot more research I'd need to do to make the AI better.

in my experience the campaign AI is universally terrible. often not spending a single experience point. so that's the AI that I would most like to change!
 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:23 pm Reply with quote Back to top

which file determines the ai type? I found it a while back but I completely forgot which one it is and where.
 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

the SAI profile for each general (located in the SAI folder) gives the Ego template for each general and nation. each general has three templates:

low income
main game
end game

the priorities and decision-making rules for these ego templates is located in the Templates folder. I'm not sure which files get used yet.

my guess is that two files get used by every general

template_sai.tgi
template_sai_aa.tgi

then the appropriate ego template gets added on top of that.

this was a useful study-- because unless the new special operations conform to an existing template or get added into these SAI files the AI will simply ignore them. even when I created powerful special ops like "Scorched Earth" and "Aerial Supremacy" the AI will ignore these in favor of operations it is already familiar with.

I created an "Industrialization" special op for Eisenhower that reduces the recruit costs of everything by 20 percent for two minutes on all the enchanted buildings. (it cuts the cost of HQ tents deployed from the Corps HQ early in the game, later on it can be used to reduce the recuit costs of anything except tech research)... the AI wouldn't use it because it couldn't recognize the procedure!
 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I noticed, when opening up the balanced SAI template, that the AI is only designed to manage 1 military goal in the low-income stage, 2 goals in the main stage, and 4 goals in the end-game stage.

what I did was change the early low-income stage to have 4 goals-- and I changed the CV (probably City Value) from 1.2 to 2.5 (the defense value assigned to cities in the mid and late game stages). this doubled the city value that Montgomery had in the early stage of the game. it also meant that instead of having one potential city to capture he could have four. it's made Monty a much better early-game general.
 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Usually depends on which country tho
 
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I've figured out that there are three factors in the SAI templates that make game-play more challenging.


the two most important ones are as follows

[Recruiting]

max_goals_per_think =

I believe this is the number of regiments that the AI is prepared to recruit during a 'think-session'. there are some AI profiles where this number is actually zero! I'm still in the testing part for this variable-- but I believe if I change the quantity to 6-- that the AI will more aggressively recruit regiments and give the player a hard time.

num_military_goals =

this loosely translates into how many military goals the AI can manage at one time.

what this seems to mean, in practical terms, is how many cities is the AI programmed to simultaneously capture.

by increaseing both of these numbers 'goals' and 'military goals I've managed to increase the average length of single-player games against the AI in WW2 mode. in the past it was common for me to obliterate the enemy by rushing, stealing cities, and the like-- all within 20 minutes or so for most games. by changing the factors mentioned above-- I've managed to get games to last 45 minutes or longer for every game.

previously I could steal all the cities within 10 minutes and not have to worry about losing them. once I engaged the AI's base they usually spent all of their energy trying to defend it. now if I try wiping out their base the AI will start stealing undefended cities AND launching counter-attacks against my base... all the while, trying to defend their base as best they can. it's still not as good as playing against a human being, I'd wager, but it's significantly better than what the game started out with.
 
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

an aside-- having tested the 'num_military_goals' on a dozens of WW2-mode games I can confidently say that the higher the number is-- the more effective the AI becomes at stealing cities. one of my concerns is that the AI consistently recruits far fewer regiments than the player-- the largest number I've used thus far is 8. because anything larger than that seems like over-kill

so it is my hope that when I increase the 'max_goals_per_think' line-item that I can get the AI to build regiments faster.

when I played the Morgenblitz mod I noticed it was common for the AI to stop building units around 30-40. this was insufficient considering that I would often have at least twice that much. there were even some games where I outnumberd the enemy four-to-one (if I could only use infantry).
 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:01 pm Reply with quote Back to top

So your point is?? which general do you think it is?
 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

don't have an opinion, to be honest. my reason for starting this thread was to get suggestions about who was the best AI. study their attributes and find a way to make ALL of the AI generals a decent challenge.

it seems lke there is a heavily scripted path to victory in online games. the AI that follows this scipt most closely will be more likely to defeat the player.

I will say that over time it seemed that the American and Russian generals seemed to sustain attacks throughout the game. Japan starts off strong and ends weakly-- Britain sucks-- Germany starts off really timid and gets better by late game.

early on the 'artillery' generals gave me the hardest time: Rundstedt, Rokkosovski, and Chuikov
followed shortly thereafter by the 'planes' generals: Manstein, Arnold, and Nagumo
 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Is it in the campaign or the custom play?? For the single player??
 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm pretty sure that the campaign and custom play use different AI. the 'campaign' AI seems to over-ride the regular AI.

I've extracted maps from the SP campaign and played them in the custom map menu-- and was surprised to see that the AI is much more aggressive. it's common in campaign missions for the AI to not use experience points-- even after they've acquired several thousand points. but take that same map and play it in the custom maps menu interface and they use up experience points much faster.

it appears that by 'campaign' the game takes it to mean that this AI is used in the SP scripted campaign or in WW2 mode.

my most challenging games have always ended up being played either through the custom map menu or directly from the mission editor. I made some maps that were difficult in the custom menu which became down-right impossible to win when playing directly through the game editor.

I haven't figured out what determines how the AI will hoard or use experience points yet.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ok so it usually depends in campaign right whether you want it in difficulty, normal, or easy. I guess that same idea applies to the custom map. I wish the difficulty was hard as like the CPU's in Starcraft lol.
 
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